... But I just snapped at the guy.

[Vadym]

Hey all,

Get ready to laugh.

I know I shouldn't have done this, and PLEASE don't do this to your own lists, but I totally did snap on a guy today in the morning on an email. I was out last night, and destroyed my Blackberry, so I'm kinda peeved off, and the drunk after-feeling which annoys me to hell [the reason I haven't drank in months and once again, don't plan to for a while]...

Anywho, here we go.

This was one of the first refund requests I got for a method I sold to one of my lists. So... Angry Vadym + moron customer = buckle up!

This was the email I got originally:

Hi Vadym,

Uhhhh.... I hate to do this, but I need to pull that "Lifetime Guarantee" string. Not a bad report, per sey, but it's more of a $7 report, not $27. If I'm paying for $27, I except something completely new with great action steps. Actually, this report would even be an opt-in report for some. Sorry, I don't mean to be rude. Seriouslly - keep $7, or even $10. But the information your provided is definitely NOT worth $27.

Ok, I totally feel like a jerk now . Trust me, if I was actually making money, $27 is not that big of a loss. But I'm not yet. And $27 could buy me gas for a week.

To which I CHEERILY replied with:

Hey,

No worries. Sending refund now.

And by the way, trust ME when I tell you noone's going to give you a
"something completely new with great action steps" for 27 bucks.

Something completely new will run you about $2,500 a month, in the form of
one of my private released softwares. Those are revolutionary ideas. And
they don't cost a couple of bucks.

Great action steps = you'll want to go buy one of those $397 home study
courses that will water down everything for your comfort and understanding.
Again, not for $27.

Anywho, sending along the refund now.

Cheers!

And after not even FINDING their email and transaction in Paypal, since Paypal sucks at searching/processing ANYTHING other than transaction IDs, I added to my cheery morning note, another message:

Yeah, actually, I'm not going to waste time sifting through tons of happy
customers to find your transaction, and Paypal doesn't seem to want to
recognize your address, so just send me your transaction ID. Makes my life
easier, while I write you a nice big $997 steaming pile of affiliate crap,
offering you millions in easy dollars with a completely revolutionary new
way of article marketing!

Sigh...

Yeah, don't do this to your own customers and such. But it was funny and worth it to me at the time. I have plenty of other customers Ones that obviously attempt to take action, as opposed to those who blatantly choose not to.

[narres]

Sigh...

Yeah, don't do this to your own customers.

Why not...The guy was a jerk about it. You now...just ask for the refund already and shut the fu*k up about your flipping opinion about your perceived value of a $27 product. Just go get your gas.

[bluffspot]

...hard to tell who was wrong... the newbie who thought he was getting a miraculous cure for $27... or you for writing the adcopy to make it sound that way? Either way, he felt he owed you an explanation of why he was canceling and it sounded as if he were a tad upset you sold him rehashed info.

Seems like you placed the "Lifetime Guarantee" you could have turned it into a positive experience, not one where this cat is going to spread the word about what an a-hole you sounded like in your emails. Regardless if you thought he was an a-hole first...

You could have turned this around (or at least tried to) by offering him one of your bigger products at a reduced rate - I think the idea here would have been to keep him quiet and happy.

Suggestion to all - While I agree it sucks to send a refund, regardless of the reason,... keep in mind you made the deal to guarantee a length of time for your product, man-up (or woman-up) and abide by it cheerily - you'd hate to see your nastily noted email popup on ripoffreport or in someones blogs or forums... those stained remarks live on forever and usually make page one --

[NCMedia]

Every time I get an email or something that really tickles me and makes me start to cuss/reply with a vengeance... I stop, and tell myself DO NOT PRESS SEND, DO NOT PRESS SEND - Just write out what you want to say, and come back to it later in the day, preferably after something GOOD has happened in your day.

No matter how much a customer chews you out or gets under your skin, try not to ever show your weakness like this mate.

[Vadym]

I'm the only one that still finds this funny, aren't I.

In any case, understandably enough, I wouldn't act this way if this was some major product launch on big platform with a lot of partners that I have to keep happy.

But it wasn't. And I'm not at that level. So I might as well enjoy my IM experiences

[bluffspot]

V - I don't get why you think its funny? Far be it for me to judge the content and your comedic skills - but if you stop and think about it, could you have worked this guy into a return customer... instead of a customer that's going to be PO'd at your response?

Every sale should be a big deal as they lead to BIGGER deals - Every launch should be a major launch or why bother?

...and almost every customer should be kept happy... I say almost becuase there are just some people who feel 10foot tall and bulletproof standing behind a firewall and believe they can write what they want... so no, not all customers can be made happy. But you could show your other customers that you mean business when you offer a refund (a refund is not an apology).

[Vadym]

V - I don't get why you think its funny? Far be it for me to judge the content and your comedic skills - but if you stop and think about it, could you have worked this guy into a return customer... instead of a customer that's going to be PO'd at your response?

Every sale should be a big deal as they lead to BIGGER deals - Every launch should be a major launch or why bother?

...and almost every customer should be kept happy... I say almost becuase there are just some people who feel 10foot tall and bulletproof standing behind a firewall and believe they can write what they want... so no, not all customers can be made happy. But you could show your other customers that you mean business when you offer a refund (a refund is not an apology).

I don't consider selling some unhappy customer another product at a reduced price respect.

If someone did that to me, I'd be downright pissed, actually. That's pretty much not listening to my concerns.. at all.

I, on the other hand, listened to the guy. And then kicked his ass to the curb. Once a piker is ALWAYS a fucking piker. He's going to refund every book he buys, give me a headache with every Paypal dispute, etc.

It's not worth my time.

But hey, that's just my opinion. I like to take the low hangin' fruit that is customers that are happy with what they get. I don't like to keep people like this on my lists. These guys are worse than non-buyers.

[Noxter]

Interesting thread we have here and it's something I struggle with myself. Just understand that if you were working with a third party (not PP) like CB, you'd be boned out of your money faster than it was put into your account.

You can refund with an email like this:
"refnd"

V, I don't blame you. I wouldn't want him on my list either. Classic example of a kid that just reads and never takes action (AKA: lazy). I don't like these kind of people and would MUCH rather sell to the 10,000+ people that DO take action. Screw the other 3 million, I simply don't care for them. People like that carry a disease with them.

Now if I got an email like this:
"Hey V, man... this method just isn't kicking it for me. I applied and honestly put a week of hard work into it. It's been a month and still I have yet to see some cash."

^^ I would easily reply, refund and give a FREE course to a higher priced item.

If I got an email Vadym got, I would honestly wait for the dispute (not reply) and just refund that way (easier to find). Those kind of people don't deserve to be on my list; costing me money.

/rant

[bruusk]

I started out by looking for torrent/rapidshare files for popular courses.

Then I went into buying courses, absorbing them (downloading as much of them as available for future reference) and then refunding just before the guarantee ran out.

Mind you, I was actually trying what I got tought every free minute, and dreaming it at night.

Then when I started making some money (and learned to distinguish between hype and value based on the pitch somewhat) I actually bought some course that I didn't refund.

Nowadays, I still like to stay on top of the game (not every hype, I dont care for twitter and such, just anything SEO that promises new tactics/insights gets my attention). I maybe refund 10% if it is REALLY bad.

If there is even 1 little gem there - That probably pays my 97 bucks in the long run and more.

I never pay more than 200 bucks for any course. I may for a software if it automates something I already do.

Reason why I am posting this is probably obvious:

That guy may move up in the food chain and buy your software one year from now.

That being said: I hate customers and have done phone "support" for brick/mortar bizzes, have brutalized a consumer or 2 in my day. It happens.

[Vadym]

Reason why I am posting this is probably obvious:

That guy may move up in the food chain and buy your software one year from now.

That being said: I hate customers and have done phone "support" for brick/mortar bizzes, have brutalized a consumer or 2 in my day. It happens.

So you can relate to me exactly when I say you get a vibe for what kind of a customer the person is with an email like that.

A piker.

Who even if he DOES buy some $97 a month software, I'll never hear the end of it in terms of support and such.

Not worth it.

[Ashley]

lol.. You imagine how you feel when you get something like this...

GIVE ME A REFUND ON THIS MOTHER FUCKING PEICE OF SHIT ROBOT BFORE I LOSE ALL MY FUCKING MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

eVEN WITH THE LITTLE PROFIT I DID MAKE IT FUCKING TURNS RIGHT AROIUND AND FUCKING LOSES IT ALL!!!

ANY FUCKING COMPANY THAT DOESN'T ANSWER EMAILS ARE NOTHING BUT A BUNCH OF FUCKING RIP OFF CRIMINALS ANY WAY!!!!


REFUND MY MONEY NOW !!!!!!! FUCKING MOTHER FUCKERS!!!!!!!!!!!!! FUCKING LYING PIECES OF SHITS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i have done nothing but steadily lose money on this goddamn piece of shit rip off scam shit!!!

Yeah I did show weakness and replied in the same tone.

The thing is.. this was from a Woman!!!!

[Vadym]

lol.. You imagine how you feel when you get something like this...



Yeah I did show weakness and replied in the same tone.

The thing is.. this was from a Woman!!!!

I would've said something along the lines of "I'm keeping your money", and let her get her refund through Clickbank if she's smart enough.

People like that deserve to worry.

[Ganceann]

I don't consider selling some unhappy customer another product at a reduced price respect.

If someone did that to me, I'd be downright pissed, actually. That's pretty much not listening to my concerns.. at all.

Most companies use complaints and unhappy customers as a springboard to upselling them on another product or adding something additional to their package.

Every complaint is an opportunity.

[Noxter]

Most companies use complaints and unhappy customers as a springboard to upselling them on another product or adding something additional to their package.

Every complaint is an opportunity.

Sure. But most won't take the offer if it includes shoving out more money. People are dumb, some will take the offer but chances are pretty slim (people rely on trust -- it was already broken to start with) and require a lot of work on your end to make the upsell. Plus, since you made the original contact, you'll be dealing with customer service and maybe even a refund.

But I agree with what you're saying and it is good advice. I would personally offer it for free (the higher priced item), which will lead to buys from future products because I'm so "moral" and "kind." But I wouldn't even deal with the customer V had. Am I losing money? Sure. Am I wasting time? Yes. They go hand in hand?

@Ash, lol nice.

[The Bird of Prey]

I've debated with myself about commenting on this topic for the last 24 hours. As it is my intent to make this a learning experience and not a bash on Vadym I have (obviously) decided to comment.
Let me make it clear that this is not intended to bash Vadym or anyone else!

If you are going to work in sales on the internet you are going to get "nastygrams" like Ashley and Vadym have shown above. Be grateful, it wasn't so long ago (and unforutnately for many it still is) that you had to deal with this type of person face to face.
It is only human nature to want to respond in kind when faced with this type of communication. It was in an attempt to combat this nature that "The Customer is ALWAYS right!" was adopted by so many sales organizations.
On the surface it appears that this is in the best interest of the company at the expense of stress on the customer service rep. But especialy in cases where you are the webdesigner, salesman, CSR, accountant chief cook and bottle washer... adopting "The Customer is ALWAYS right!" regardless of how rude, inconsiderate or ignorant that customer may be... could be the difference between a successful business and a flop.
Here's how it can happen.
As you become more successful, you make more sales and you end up making more refunds too. Not necessarily a higher percentage of refunds, but 1% of 10,000 is 10 times the number of refunds that 1% of 1,000 sales will generate.
And some of those refund requests are going to be rude, crude, lewd and otherwise socially unacceptable.
Now if you allow yourself the luxury of responding in kind, that negativity will begin to creep into your other work. In your mind you'll see more and more of your customers as "sheep", "idiots", "lazy", "stupid", "thieves"... the list goes on and on.
This view will show up in your day to day conversations, even your writing will start to lean toward negativity. Eventually your salescopy will start to reflect this too.
Before you know it, everyone and I mean everyone, friends, co workers, even family will become part of the unwashed masses.
In an attempt to reduce the stress of dealing with undesirables, you may even begin sabotaging your own business ventures.
You may think you are young, mentally strong and that the above just can't happen to you.
It can. I've been through this cycle twice, once in my late teens,early twenties and again in my early thirties. Negativity is a powerful drug and it can pull down anyone.
Note: thinking you are better than everyone else is a sign you may already be headed down this path.

That is why I highly recommend, that whatever the tone of a refund request... just give them a professional reply (i.e. refund processed xx/xx/xx at x:xx XM or please submit transaction id, your refund will be processed upon reciept of transaction id).
Remember,
The Customer is ALWAYS right!

And

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

Oh and one more thing...

We're all in this together, I'm pullin' for ya!

[MedicAffiliate]

You might've lost your temper and it happens to the best of us, nothing wrong with that. But the fact that you chose to discuss it means you aren't entirely happy with your own reaction either.

I've nothing to add but this "Be kind to everyone, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle". Alexander of Macedonia said that and his reputation for winning over hostiles is legendary. This guy might have seemed like some lazy douche but you can't know what his background and problems are, how desperate or stressed he is iRL. Sympathetic understanding goes a long way here, he might have understood you're trying to help him and do as you say in which case you've got a fan who will spread your gospel or he might just bug you with more support in which case terminating him is the best option. Just that you should scope people out before doing something drastic.

[Noxter]

Now if you allow yourself the luxury of responding in kind, that negativity will begin to creep into your other work. In your mind you'll see more and more of your customers as "sheep", "idiots", "lazy", "stupid", "thieves"... the list goes on and on.
This view will show up in your day to day conversations, even your writing will start to lean toward negativity. Eventually your salescopy will start to reflect this too.
Before you know it, everyone and I mean everyone, friends, co workers, even family will become part of the unwashed masses.
In an attempt to reduce the stress of dealing with undesirables, you may even begin sabotaging your own business ventures.
You may think you are young, mentally strong and that the above just can't happen to you.
It can. I've been through this cycle twice, once in my late teens,early twenties and again in my early thirties. Negativity is a powerful drug and it can pull down anyone.

This in itself is negative ^^. And this is why meditation and quiet time are SO VERY important.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

I was thinking this while I was reading what you had to say. Indeed, this quote is perfect... and you must understand that it is also double sided.

While I was out to dinner tonight, I said thank you, appreciate it, and always help with the clean up. These people work to serve me, however I understand what it's like to have an asshole. So do I deserve an asshole in return? Do my actions attract the RIGHT kind of people? Not all the time and guess what, I honestly don't give three and a half shits. If a customer is lazy, get the fack out of my program, period. If you are lazy in real life, get the fack out of my face. Am I an asshole? No. Those whom your most around you become. There are too many good, hard working people out there that I want to meet, I don't have time to waste with lazy people. I want to be around people who have a goal and NOT just a dream.

The reason why "the customer is always right" is because it works best for employees that don't know better. Hard workers getting paid 6 bucks an hour to take shit, these are the people I want to help and want in my program.

Just because someone is young doesn't mean their not experienced. Matter of fact I spoke to a few friends tonight at dinner, all of them said, do not refund the lazy piece of shit. We are not talking penny pushers here.

Like I said, I would refund anyone, I mean ANYONE that gives an effort. I like these people.

Edit*: This is what I believe and maybe I'm wrong. I see your point of view and I accept it, just wanted to explain myself a little better. Props to you guys that have a professional face and deal with all kinds. I would personally need to take 2 hours of quiet time per day .

Second edit**: I was thinking about removing this post. I don't want you guys to get the wrong idea. I look really hard at my life and try to improve it. I originally said, this would be an interesting thread and I'm glad I was able to share my opinion.

Third (and last) ***: Lol, I don't believe in anyone shooting down a customer or yelling (you just can't stay sane). Staying quiet is the way to go.

[Vadym]

I've debated with myself about commenting on this topic for the last 24 hours. As it is my intent to make this a learning experience and not a bash on Vadym I have (obviously) decided to comment.
Let me make it clear that this is not intended to bash Vadym or anyone else!

If you are going to work in sales on the internet you are going to get "nastygrams" like Ashley and Vadym have shown above. Be grateful, it wasn't so long ago (and unforutnately for many it still is) that you had to deal with this type of person face to face.
It is only human nature to want to respond in kind when faced with this type of communication. It was in an attempt to combat this nature that "The Customer is ALWAYS right!" was adopted by so many sales organizations.
On the surface it appears that this is in the best interest of the company at the expense of stress on the customer service rep. But especialy in cases where you are the webdesigner, salesman, CSR, accountant chief cook and bottle washer... adopting "The Customer is ALWAYS right!" regardless of how rude, inconsiderate or ignorant that customer may be... could be the difference between a successful business and a flop.
Here's how it can happen.
As you become more successful, you make more sales and you end up making more refunds too. Not necessarily a higher percentage of refunds, but 1% of 10,000 is 10 times the number of refunds that 1% of 1,000 sales will generate.
And some of those refund requests are going to be rude, crude, lewd and otherwise socially unacceptable.
Now if you allow yourself the luxury of responding in kind, that negativity will begin to creep into your other work. In your mind you'll see more and more of your customers as "sheep", "idiots", "lazy", "stupid", "thieves"... the list goes on and on.
This view will show up in your day to day conversations, even your writing will start to lean toward negativity. Eventually your salescopy will start to reflect this too.
Before you know it, everyone and I mean everyone, friends, co workers, even family will become part of the unwashed masses.
In an attempt to reduce the stress of dealing with undesirables, you may even begin sabotaging your own business ventures.
You may think you are young, mentally strong and that the above just can't happen to you.
It can. I've been through this cycle twice, once in my late teens,early twenties and again in my early thirties. Negativity is a powerful drug and it can pull down anyone.
Note: thinking you are better than everyone else is a sign you may already be headed down this path.

That is why I highly recommend, that whatever the tone of a refund request... just give them a professional reply (i.e. refund processed xx/xx/xx at x:xx XM or please submit transaction id, your refund will be processed upon reciept of transaction id).
Remember,
The Customer is ALWAYS right!

And

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

Oh and one more thing...

We're all in this together, I'm pullin' for ya!

No offense to ya either, but I've got plenty of experience here. Even at my "young age", I've got the marketing and customer experience, enough of it to be able to determine what kind of a customer a customer is.

This was one of the worst refund requests I've ever seen. Ever. This is NOT a person I want to do business with. This IS a person I want to drive away.

My traffic and lead generation doesn't leave me gasping for every last customer, so I can afford to be somewhat choosy.

This is a one-time response I sent, as I'm generally a cheery guy, in any email. An earlier refund for that same product came out with the guy telling me that he's looking forward to buying my next product.

So trust me when I say that I know what I write to people. And how to force them to take actions I want.

Oh, and for this whole "negativity and laziness creeping into your business"... I don't understand what you mean, really.

I handle all of my businesses with a PURPOSE. A clear goal. It doesn't leave room for laziness, negativity, etc. If anyone uses "laziness" or "negativity" for an excuse not to get their shit DONE, they aren't here for the right reasons. And they will fail.

Because we can all sell the shit to our clients that "ANYONE CAN DO INTERNET MARKETING", but we know perfectly that not everyone can do it. In fact, only a small percentage can do it properly.


Oh, and for that last point. I'm the last person to consider any of my buyers lists sheep. In fact, if I took a couple of people I can point from this forum that are buyers of my services/methods/whatever, about 80% of them are repeat buyers in one way or another.

I don't think anyone that tries IM is a sheep. I think people that believe in the whole concept of "laziness and negativity making me fail at IM" sheep.

Because they believe what the majority believes.

Most companies use complaints and unhappy customers as a springboard to upselling them on another product or adding something additional to their package.

Every complaint is an opportunity.

While my customers aren't sheep, they're not opportunities either. I get what you're saying, but the way I work my refunds work. These refunders BUY AGAIN. Yeah, I'm not risking pissing them off by upselling when they're asking for their money back, but hey, it works for me.

You might've lost your temper and it happens to the best of us, nothing wrong with that. But the fact that you chose to discuss it means you aren't entirely happy with your own reaction either.

I've nothing to add but this "Be kind to everyone, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle". Alexander of Macedonia said that and his reputation for winning over hostiles is legendary. This guy might have seemed like some lazy douche but you can't know what his background and problems are, how desperate or stressed he is iRL. Sympathetic understanding goes a long way here, he might have understood you're trying to help him and do as you say in which case you've got a fan who will spread your gospel or he might just bug you with more support in which case terminating him is the best option. Just that you should scope people out before doing something drastic.

I actually thought people would get a kick out of this. Like I said, it's the WORST refund request ever. And as you can see, this IS a piker, not a customer.

We've all heard about "outsourcing = if your time costs $30 an hour, and you spend $10 to write articles that would take you an hour to write, it's a good idea", right?

Well, if the amount of money this person generates for me over a lifetime < the time they'll spend bugging me, even initially, I'd rather do what I did. Yeah, I don't save every last potential customer, but like I said, I'm not at a loss for leads.

[terryq9317]

I don't consider selling some unhappy customer another product at a reduced price respect.

.

its not about selling them something new but providing them with service so that they feel they can still rely on you and perhaps buy something new that you have to offer

[Vadym]

its not about selling them something new but providing them with service so that they feel they can still rely on you and perhaps buy something new that you have to offer

If you buy a course for say.. $997.

You're unhappy with it.

And instead of refunding you like you want, I give you the "service" of sending you the money and harassing you to buy another course... will you not simply unsubscribe?

I would.

[MedicAffiliate]

The point I tried making about sympathy is, if you approach this guy with the intent to help him then he will most likely listen to what you have to say and start practicing it and even if it didn't work, he won't hesitate to sing your praise elsewhere. In fact, the guy was downright apologetic in requesting his refund and seems like the type who would respond to a sincere effort, but if he keeps whinging on then just drop him as harmlessly as possible.

In my own life, I've often felt like stabbing people in the face in the hellholes I've worked at but learned the value of composure. Formality is always the key to distancing yourself from these people and situations, leave all the emotional shit for the other guy to sort out. It's always a temptation to tell off someone you're forced to deal with but in the end, it's all about the money and thrills like these are rarely worth it.

As you said, your role in this has a purpose, educating affiliates and personal profit (afaik). And if those purposes aren't served with your best efforts then just scrap it, learn what you can and move on. Introspection is rarely profitable and there will come a day when all this will be just another entertaining story to tell.

[bluffspot]

ok - time to chime in ... after re-reading the guys complaint, it just seems he discovered what you sold him was shiite and in a nice way, told you so.

I think it would be better to judge the email based on your copy, your guarantee and title -

... but IMO it doesnt appear he "went off" like a nutter... just told you in a roundabout way how he felt.

Your response could have been:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi "INSERT NAME"

No worries. I truly believe in my products and feel that this smaller programme was perfect for getting a jump start in "INSERT PROGRAMME NAME". I see your point though but first let me explain a bit on how our build works. Often a smaller programme is what most people can afford and quite honestly, we don't always know the skillset of our customers, hence the smaller system you purchased.

We do have a larger package that might be what you were originally looking for and it can be seen here: "INSERT WEB ADDRESS". Take a moment to view it and see if its something that may fit your needs. I would be more than happy to reduce the price by way of your refund.

We do wish you luck with your endeavors and hope you'll look to us in the future for your "INSERT NEEDS".

To your success,

Vadym
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


You may use this in your return and reply letters...

[Keith]

or of course..

you could just tell em to go away in short sharp jerky movements.....

[The Bird of Prey]

No offense to ya either, but I've got plenty of experience here. Even at my "young age", I've got the marketing and customer experience, enough of it to be able to determine what kind of a customer a customer is.

No offense taken. And there is no questioning of your credentials either. I have a great deal of respect for you and your knowledge. Your original post simply provided me with an opening to share MY experience in this area.

This was one of the worst refund requests I've ever seen. Ever. This is NOT a person I want to do business with. This IS a person I want to drive away.

As I prefaced my original post, my purpose was not to slight your decision in any way. I would never presume to tell you how you should run your business. I apologize profusely if this came across that way.

My traffic and lead generation doesn't leave me gasping for every last customer, so I can afford to be somewhat choosy.

This is a one-time response I sent, as I'm generally a cheery guy, in any email. An earlier refund for that same product came out with the guy telling me that he's looking forward to buying my next product.

So trust me when I say that I know what I write to people. And how to force them to take actions I want.

I understand you completely. I do agree that you do not take action lightly, nor do you write (or speak either) without knowing exactly what you want to accomplish.

Oh, and for this whole "negativity and laziness creeping into your business"... I don't understand what you mean, really.

As I said above, I am relating a personal experience. Negativity (I did not say anything about "lazyness" creeping into a business) can be a very pervasive force, and it can sneak up on one and become entrenched before you even know it's there.
The point was to present the potential so that others might have a chance to recognize a problem in their business dealings and avoid a pitfall. Your post provided a launch pad for me to bring this up, nothing I posted was aimed at you.

I handle all of my businesses with a PURPOSE. A clear goal. It doesn't leave room for laziness, negativity, etc. If anyone uses "laziness" or "negativity" for an excuse not to get their shit DONE, they aren't here for the right reasons. And they will fail.

I agree

Because we can all sell the shit to our clients that "ANYONE CAN DO INTERNET MARKETING", but we know perfectly that not everyone can do it. In fact, only a small percentage can do it properly.

True

Oh, and for that last point. I'm the last person to consider any of my buyers lists sheep. In fact, if I took a couple of people I can point from this forum that are buyers of my services/methods/whatever, about 80% of them are repeat buyers in one way or another.

I wouldn't expect YOU to consider YOUR buyers "sheep", This was just one example of the negativity that can creep into a marketer's mind.

I don't think anyone that tries IM is a sheep. I think people that believe in the whole concept of "laziness and negativity making me fail at IM" sheep.

Because they believe what the majority believes.

Specifically, when I used the term "sheep" in my original post I was thinking of a couple of "big time gurus" that privately referred to their mailing list as "the sheep" typically they would order a mailing with the command "time to shear the sheep". I tend to think of those that follow the word of "anyone", politician, celebrity, IM guru, etc. without thinking for themselves to be exhibiting sheeplike tendencies.

While my customers aren't sheep, they're not opportunities either. I get what you're saying, but the way I work my refunds work. These refunders BUY AGAIN. Yeah, I'm not risking pissing them off by upselling when they're asking for their money back, but hey, it works for me.

Que sera sera.

I actually thought people would get a kick out of this. Like I said, it's the WORST refund request ever. And as you can see, this IS a piker, not a customer.

We've all heard about "outsourcing = if your time costs $30 an hour, and you spend $10 to write articles that would take you an hour to write, it's a good idea", right?

Well, if the amount of money this person generates for me over a lifetime < the time they'll spend bugging me, even initially, I'd rather do what I did. Yeah, I don't save every last potential customer, but like I said, I'm not at a loss for leads.

I'm sorry that I did not get a *kick* out of this. If this is the worst refund request you ever get... be thankful. I once worked for a retail electronics store where an unhappy customer requested his refund from behind a double barrel twelve guage shotgun. I've been cursed at in at least six different languages with words that would make a Marine blush. I've issued refunds and tresspass warrants at the same time to the same person, and yes Mr. Shotgun got his refund and a nice pair of braclets to go with it.

I *get* it that you were insulted by the way the refund request was made and that, as is your right, you no longer wanted this customer wasting your time. One more time, as I prefaced my original post, my response wasn't about you. It simply provided me an opportunity to share MY experience in the hope it might help someone else.

[The Bird of Prey]

Edit*: This is what I believe and maybe I'm wrong. I see your point of view and I accept it, just wanted to explain myself a little better. Props to you guys that have a professional face and deal with all kinds. I would personally need to take 2 hours of quiet time per day .

Second edit**: I was thinking about removing this post. I don't want you guys to get the wrong idea. I look really hard at my life and try to improve it. I originally said, this would be an interesting thread and I'm glad I was able to share my opinion.

Third (and last) ***: Lol, I don't believe in anyone shooting down a customer or yelling (you just can't stay sane). Staying quiet is the way to go.

Nox, there are days when I need 8 hours of meditation/prayer/quiet time/whatever after only 2 hours on the job!
I'm glad you didn't remove your post. It IS an interesting thread!

Special for those interested in Aromatherapy--- Lavender can be very calming.

[SirKhan]

I think that this topic and question is one of those that no one has the "correct solution" for. First of all we all handle refund requests and communication with customers in a different way.
Each one of the gurus has (and must have!) a style that clearly separates him/her from the rest. Vadym has his style and he's successful with/because of it. I think each person that faces this kind of situation reacts differently. I can clearly see how the older ones are more patient while the younger ones have the opposite attitude. Which is NOT a problem!

And I have my opinion too I'm in between the two poles: I try to work out the problem with the customer if he/she is not a complete 4ss. If after 2 e-mail exchanges we're still heading nowhere, then refund + ignore forever.

[bluffspot]

ok ok ... I'll stop.. shaking my head in amazement.. but... I'll stop:

YouTube Video

[Vadym]

Before I close this topic, I'd like to say one thing.

The guy never sent me his trans ID. And he still hasn't sent a dispute.

I r win.