Damnit ClickBank - Total Bullshit

[Noxter]

Listen, I'm here to vent a bit and release some steam. I will, however, aim this thread toward an educational approach...

F**k you ClickBank

But the economy plays a roll in your sales... Sure I believe that. Oddly enough all my other sources of income have made record sales. I sell needs and not wants - inside and out of CB.

Explain to me ClickSh*t, how a person can go from making $xxx(x) a day to strickly $0? Check my hop links? Please, hoe. Poor conversion? hoptosale2 on Flickr - Photo Sharing! - please hoe. Our economy? Please, hoe.

In total I have sent over 1,000 TARGETED hops to every single product since 10/7. No product of mine lacks - I hold myself to a very high standard.

I have not gotten a single charge back on this account.
Yes I have e-mailed them - no response (it has been 72 hours - yes I understand they don't work on weekends).

By any means, I am not a negative person and I despise that kind of energy. I have remained positive throughout until today (being the 6th day).

So what am I going to do about it? Create a new account and move half of my hops over. Will I make a sale? Who knows - stay tuned.

Cheers,
Kevin O.

[ajhowell79]

Hey Kevin,

What are you talking about? You think that clickbank is not registering your sales? Because I think I may have that same problem. I was converting good on a magic trick product I was selling and then bang! The traffic kept increasing and the sales stopped completely. I finally pulled the campaign because I think something is wrong.

[Noxter]

Report:

I have not yet slept in 22 hours and will not until I figure out a solution to this problem. It is still early in the morning (8 AM EST) - no sales just yet on both accounts.

I have been spending some of my time getting ready for Norb's new product launch on Monday. Cheers to that man.

This will be the very first product I promote with Norb (thus me joining the community here at NicheChoppers). I have been a lurker on DP for quite a while. Having always appreciated the knowledge and experience Norb brought to the table (discussion). I have nothing but respect. I'm going to slam your product (Efficient Planet), end of story.

I have not slowed my production of content for ClickBank products. Just holding off until my account begins to function in a proper manner.

Cheers,
Kevin O.

[Noxter]

Interesting ... two sales on the new account already. This particular product converted in 21 hops. Interesting - very. (9:20 AM EST)

**EDIT** To be completely honest with you - I'm really pissed off. A loss of money can do that to a person. I could have gotten that new watch I've been looking at .

***EDIT*** I just need to cut my losses and be glad all is working. Oh, that's right - there was no investment. How could I have forgotten? Silly ol' me.

[ajhowell79]

So was there a "problem" with one of your CB accounts? Wondering if I should open a new one for good measure. Thanks. AJ

[ajhowell79]

sh**, your f*****n freaking out? I'm freaking out! Now you got me thinking I have been making sales all along! When I first opened my CB account I wasn't cloaking my links. Then I started doing it but short after my sales stopped. You think I got Hijacked or something? I opened a new CB acc. anyway. I like the new nic better anyway. I will use it as a tester and switch all my hops. If sales start going through I'm gonna be P O'd.

[Ganceann]

There have been various discussion threads started on DP about this subject and to be honest with you, I have no idea what is happening either... but it isn't just you that feels as if they have been affected by it as many people have had long periods of sales just to have them dry up.

I can accept there will be some fluctuation in sales over time, but it isn't normal for everything to dry up - even in a recession/economic downturn... sales wouldn't dry up overnight, they would slow down significantly, but not dry up.

Some of the problems can be accounted for by:
1. economic downturn/recession
2. fraud handling/prevention kicking in (payment handling preventing new orders being taken for x period of time)

There are other things as well that may account for more browsing and less buying... this is what I would expect in a recession/economic downturn... that more people will browse and fewer people will buy... but not for sales to simply stop and dry up.

[JIMZ]

I have just checked one of my sites that I haven't looked at in a while and all of the links are cloaked with subdomains. When I clicked on two of these links they redirect to the right page and I can see them loading up with my CBID, but when I click to buy it shows this at the bottom "affiliate=none" - that is fcuked up. I check two different links and both the same.

I will take the cloaking off and see if it makes a difference. This will account for fact that I am still sending same number of hops, but very few sales in this niche.

Anyone else checked their links and seen the same?

JZ

[lucidflux]

Past couple of days 1 sale with couple thousand hops. Converts at 220-250 like clockwork. I can feel when these are coming, when I breach 500 hops with 00000, I know it's a drought.

I did switch TIDS on my links and that is when the 1 sale came through-about 10 minutes after that. These droughts of mine always seem to happen on the weekends. Some may say well that is your answer that buying habits change, but hops are usually way higher, and people are usually wasted and like to buy.(Looking back, highest days ARE weekends)

[ajhowell79]

JIMZ,

I just checked all of mine, they seem to be working fine. It is showing my aff. ID at the bottom of the purchase page. Just a thought, i'm no genious here, but do you have cookies enabled on your browser, your browser may be dropping the cookie.

Honestly, I think it is something else but you might want to check that. AJ

[JIMZ]

AJ

it is definately the type of cloaking, the php redirects work fine but this other method i am using is not.

JZ

[Noxter]

First and foremost, thank you for the reply.

There have been various discussion threads started on DP about this subject and to be honest with you, I have no idea what is happening either... but it isn't just you that feels as if they have been affected by it as many people have had long periods of sales just to have them dry up.

I can accept there will be some fluctuation in sales over time, but it isn't normal for everything to dry up - even in a recession/economic downturn... sales wouldn't dry up overnight, they would slow down significantly, but not dry up.

Some of the problems can be accounted for by:
1. economic downturn/recession
2. fraud handling/prevention kicking in (payment handling preventing new orders being taken for x period of time)

There are other things as well that may account for more browsing and less buying... this is what I would expect in a recession/economic downturn... that more people will browse and fewer people will buy... but not for sales to simply stop and dry up.

I realize that there has been a few threads floating around DP. A lot of them filled with complainants. I wanted to take an educational approach and rid of the trash. Basically, I keep a lot of my opinions to myself and never (hardly) release to the public. I wanted to make a straight forward thread that would, in the future, help fellow affiliates.

I wrote that there was been no charge backs on the account (fraud).

I also wrote how my other sources of income have not failed. If they did, I would easily be out of a house, car, phone, and food. I don't trust ClickBank and I believe their pulling a Commission Junction from under our noises. For those that did not know, about five months ago, CJ was sued (taken to court) for stealing money from affiliates (not registering sales). I believe ClickBank is making their own artificial decline in sales; while blaming the economy. As you said yourself, sales do not go from $xxx(x) to $0. I am a six figure earner just using ClickBank. It all seems completely shady.

I have just checked one of my sites that I haven't looked at in a while and all of the links are cloaked with subdomains. When I clicked on two of these links they redirect to the right page and I can see them loading up with my CBID, but when I click to buy it shows this at the bottom "affiliate=none" - that is fcuked up. I check two different links and both the same.

I will take the cloaking off and see if it makes a difference. This will account for fact that I am still sending same number of hops, but very few sales in this niche.

Anyone else checked their links and seen the same?

JZ

Interesting to say the least... I double check my affiliate links every week or so, all was running normal. I check with multiple computers and browsers.

Past couple of days 1 sale with couple thousand hops. Converts at 220-250 like clockwork. I can feel when these are coming, when I breach 500 hops with 00000, I know it's a drought.

I did switch TIDS on my links and that is when the 1 sale came through-about 10 minutes after that. These droughts of mine always seem to happen on the weekends. Some may say well that is your answer that buying habits change, but hops are usually way higher, and people are usually wasted and like to buy.(Looking back, highest days ARE weekends)

I am glad this worked for you, but it did not for me. 10/8 I changed all of my TIDS (this took some time) - still no sales. 10/9 I deleted all of my TIDS - still nothing. Sales stopped moving in at 10/7.

Know what will make me chuckle a bit? When ClickBank e-mails me back with the reply, "there are no problems on our end, you just suck as an affiliate." Thanks ClickBank!

Cheers,
Kevin O.

[Noxter]

Even if cookies were blocked through IE, Firefox, Safari, Opera, whatever - it will still track your cookie. Why? Because it is a first party cookie and not some third party. Basically your web browser cannot open the page without it. However, if someone cleared their cookies and bought directly from the vendor than you have a problem .

[Madman340]

I started with Clickbank right when these problems began... Have not had a sale yet, and I have 2 websites up right now that have gotten me over 500 hops... This is targetted traffic too.

[ajhowell79]

Hmmmm. Good point Kevin. Thanks for makin me look like and a**. lol. The page wouldn't open if cookies were not enabled. So couldn't have been that anyway.

[ajhowell79]

Sounds to me like CB has suffered a loss due to the economy and had to start skimming the gravy to make up for it. Tactics most big companies use when they are low on cash. Highly illegal, but they hardly ever get caught. So there, I through out the truth. Don't tell CB I said that. AJ

A dollar here a dollar there, a hundred here, a hundred there. Alright, we are back up and running!

[ajhowell79]

I started with Clickbank right when these problems began... Have not had a sale yet, and I have 2 websites up right now that have gotten me over 500 hops... This is targetted traffic too.

I started right before the problems began. I made 3 sales first week and then blam! Nothing since and I am doing more promoting now then I was then.

[Noxter]

Hmmmm. Good point Kevin. Thanks for makin me look like and a**. lol. The page wouldn't open if cookies were not enabled. So couldn't have been that anyway.

By no means did I intend to make you feel 'stupid'. This place is a learning experience and I wish to keep it that way. Don't worry my friend!

[ajhowell79]

By no means did I intend to make you feel 'stupid'. This place is a learning experience and I wish to keep it that way. Don't worry my friend!

Oh I know buddy. No hard feelings. I was just giving you a hard time. Good luck getting that CB stuff figured out. If you find out anything juicy let me know. AJhttp://forums.nichechoppers.com/images/smilies/bottom.gif

[NCMedia]

Noxter,

I wasn't sure what to think of this thread when you first started it mate - however you bring a good spin to it and you've just made VIP status.

/good banter.

[The Bird of Prey]

Hi everyone,

First off I'm not trying to defend CB, but every single one of my sales has come since the 7th.
What I found surprising is that *NONE* of my hops are showing up for today. Granted there haven't been many but even my "check if thing is workin'" clicks haven't registered at CB. My CB ID does show up on the appropriate item page though.
Something else to consider that may have an impact on our results is that it appears Google is going through another "update" (since the 7th I think?).
And lastly, this has been a tumultuous week in the financial world. On a par with Black Monday (10-19-1987) and the post 9-11-2001 markets. Having been in Affiliate/Network/Internet Marketing as long as I have allows me to "remember" that sales during those periods were few and far between, no matter what you were selling or how you sold it.

[TerryE]

My sales went from a steady and consistent $1200-$1500 a month for 14 months down to less than $200 for Sept. Now Oct is at a whopping $71 so far. I understand the economy on some of it, but something isn't right.

[MedicAffiliate]

I wanna know, if the payment form says affiliate=none at the bottom, does it mean that normally the affiliate's share of the payout doesn't count, or does it go to the publisher, or does it go directly to CB itself?.

[Ganceann]

I wanna know, if the payment form says affiliate=none at the bottom, does it mean that normally the affiliate's share of the payout doesn't count, or does it go to the publisher, or does it go directly to CB itself?.

If it says affiliate=none it means there was no hop registered.

This means either the affiliate set the hoplink up incorrect or it isn't being recognised (maybe clickbank updated something to remove cookie stuffing after banning someone who was stuffing cookies).

When it is affiliate=none, I do not know if it never gives credit to any affiliate. However, the money would go to the publisher as it would be registered as a direct sale.

[Noxter]

I started the new account at 3 AM EST ... it has almost been 24 hours. Today was a bit light on sales - a little lower than average. Some weekends my sales sky rocket and others not. Overall it was a good day for a Sunday. Glad to see those numbers ticking in my CB account...

Listen guys, shopping is an addiction for the average American. It's like coffee. Next time you go to the mall, look around. Watch people and how they react in their second nature (shopping). What sells them. What doesn't. Do they ask for help? Do they demand service? If you want to go big, observe how people function when they go to look or buy. Find a store - sit outside with a cup of coffee and count how many people leave with a bag. Good conversion or bad? Now go inside and look around, ask yourself "what is selling them". As you get better, you'll be able to do the opposite. I could walk into a store and figure if it will convert. At times I will throw out a number. Sit down outside and start to count. Am I crazy? Yes. A life of numbers my friend...

80% of Americans live pay check to pay check. Why is that? It could mean a variety of things... most of the time people were conditioned as a child. If their parents were not 'savers' but 'spenders' then guess what? You guessed it, they will more than likely be spenders. However, look into a wealthy household... better yet - just look outside (the cars). Families follow trends via conditioning. I grew up in a household where money was limited, very. I was Blessed to have what I had (confusing sentence fragment, I know). When I moved away from my loving mother, she supported me the very best she could. I was dirt poor and was racking in about 250 dollars a month (eBay). I made a promise to myself at that point - screw you double cheeseburgers (I was living off them). I did something about it and totally altered my thought on money.

I want to see all of you succeed and be the very best you can be. Don't do it as anger against a family member. Don't do it for the status. Do it for yourself.

What drives me to make money? My future family; my children. I won't let their father (me) not provide for them. My promise to them: good grades in school = free car, college, and living. Something my father never gave me; I struggled and became humble through it all.

I need rest - excuse the improper grammar.

Cheers,
Kevin O.

[kinitex]

Saturday and Sunday have been my 2 worst days in the passed 2 weeks by far. Here's hoping for a good monday!

[lucidflux]

Appears to be fixed now. Anyone else with horrible sales coming back? Can't really gauge too well as it is passing peak hours.

[sarah101]

I can sympathize with N0xTer, we’ve seen such extreme sales patterns with CB too and questioned them ourselves. Realistic, I don’t think there is much chance of CB admitting errors/infallibilities with their system.

Currently, we are building an internet marketing review site, selling low cost MRR ebooks. We will use our system to drive traffic there, the same one we’ve used to drive traffic to CB’s landing pages. If we see a consistent conversion rate over a long period of time, we will probably conclude CB’s affiliate tracking system sucks or there is something more sinister going on

[Noxter]

All due respect, I would honestly rather not have this thread fill with theories and assumptions. I understand I have spoken ill about CB and went as far as assuming. I believe we should leave this to karma.

I would rather hear how people are dealing with these issues. Maybe we can help. I was conducting a test, be sure to read the entire thread.

Directed to Sarah:
I would HIGHLY recommend you e-mail them and until they respond - consider opening another CB account. Once they 'review' your account you can either 1.) move all your products back or 2.) move one converting product and bank all your allowance back (all you need is a single sale).

My sales went from a steady and consistent $1200-$1500 a month for 14 months down to less than $200 for Sept. Now Oct is at a whopping $71 so far. I understand the economy on some of it, but something isn't right.

Consider what I wrote above.

Something else to consider that may have an impact on our results is that it appears Google is going through another "update" (since the 7th I think?).

Good point - however most people dedicated in SEO check their SE position on a daily basis.

And lastly, this has been a tumultuous week in the financial world. On a par with Black Monday (10-19-1987) and the post 9-11-2001 markets.

People still drink coffee and some smoke. Waste of money due to addiction? Yes. Not much has changed in the face of the American people. Most people will go to a huge extent to get what they want. Sales won't just drop off the map - that is the point I am trying to make.

In this case, I was right.

Cheers,
Kevin

[Madman340]

Here's to hoping everything is good by the 21st!



I was originally looking for beer smilies, but that'll do.

[Ganceann]

One thing that has become clear (Jimz pointed it out), is how you do your redirects to mask/cloak your hop links.

If you are redirecting hoplinks with anything other than php redirects, you can check all your links are working correctly and your affiliate ID is showing up on the checkout page.

I know some have checked and that isn't the case... but it WILL be the case for some people - and unless you check, you won't know whether you are affected or not and could be blaming clickbank when it isn't their fault etc

[ajhowell79]

Well, it would appear everything is working OK for me. Clickbank account started opening up today with sales so I don't know if there was a problem or not. Seems kinda funny that all of a sudden today I would start getting sales and none until now. The sales came from older products and not stuff I am currently trying to promote. Of course, they could just finally be getting indexed.